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[Onerka]

Hi all:

We have talked about this probably 1001 times across the past 5 or 6 years maybe longer. Want to talk about it one last time for me.

In the current terrain it is very easy to survive getting shot down...you can ditch about 100 miles from your base and survive. Well, that is a small exaggeration. A lot of veterans have complained that it is too easy to survive and that they don't get any credit for all the planes they damage and force to the ground. That is true. We have argued for a different scoring system from IEN, but we all know that is not going to happen...or at best is a long time off. The same folks often complain when they get shot while they are smoking. There is kind of a contradiction going on here...though it is not open.

Most people beleive that we always let smokers go in the historical game. I hate to tell you, but that IS NOT TRUE. In the old game the only folks who got a free pass were the people who were dead stick. If you recall, those of you who have been silly enough to fly in cyberskies with some of us for close to 10 years now...when you were dead stick you spewed "black" smoke out the back. That, while spewing black smoke, is the only time you got a free pass. Fuel leaks were not given a free pass at all, nor were oil leaks and or etc. We did let flamers go, but the graphics of the game were not always up to letting everyone see who was flaming or not. So more often than not flamers had to quickly ditch or they got shot.

This whole thing gets even more complicated. We let the dead stick guys ditch, but the damage models in the game made it much harder to survive a ditch, so many of them died anyway. Even though you let em go, often it was an empty gesture as they were gonna die anyway and you knew that.

The survival radius - the area in which you can survive a ditch - is one thing that has changed numberous times. At first you could survive a ditch no matter where you ditched...even right beside a con field. Heck, you could land and exit and survive at an enemy field during one period of the game. Getting captured did not mean you died at that point. Used to do that just to stir some folks up, steal their beer and nurses and etc.

So...over the past couple of months I have only flown a couple of times. Real life gets in the way in the summer. On two of those occasions among the few brave individuals populating the arena...there was a squabble of sorts on channel 100 about letting smokers go. Well, we know how bad second hand smoke is to those who abstain...maybe we should shoot em all LOL. Sorry for the digression...we like you digs we do!

Why not just leave this decision for each of us - a seperate peace between the pilot and the game itself. In the larger world of life it has always been futile to mandate "how to behave" when that behavior is outside the context of the actual rules of the game.

Bottom line, I really don't care if someone shoots me when I am smoking. If I break out of the fight and fly directly to the ground, they would usually let me go smoking or not...so I am going to survive to ditch most of the time anyway. If I ditch too far from the base, I am gonna die...if not...I get to survive.

I am dead certain that a lot of real pilots kept fighting with smoking engines and that a lot of real pilots shot down guys who were smoking in real life. Movies are so romantic, but remember that other guy just killed two of your friends yesterday and you are going to tip your hat and fly away...sorry, that is not going to happen very often.

We have few enough people in the arena. What is the point of making them feel bad because they shot someone down who was smoking, and maybe they didn't even know the "rule"...that actualy is not a rule at all.

So...I propose letting folks do as they want and refraining from the messages on channel 100 that make people feel either bad/guilty or mad.

What am I gonna do, I'll probably let you go if you go straight to ground and ditch...I may chose

[Onerka]

sorry...got so long winded the dang page cut me off.

The short of it is that it is up to how I feel when we get to that point of the fight...If you drop straight down and I see you landing...you will get a free pass. I don't expect anything different. If not...I just might shoot or not. Don't know till we get there.

Take care and have fun.

One

[-okie-]

The not shoot a flamer or smoker was an unwritten rule that us vets of the very early days of DoA did, back then it worked about as good as it does now....the regulars "mostly" followed this rule (not all but most mind you) with new comers learning this "rule".
it is and always has been a personal choice thing, if you shoot anything and everything that crosses your path, so be it, there is nothing set in stone that says you cant. but bare in mind that you will step on afew toes in the process.
onerka is right in that we should stop the complaining on 100 about every little thing and just enjoy the game and have fun, if you smoke and someone shoots you down anyway, so what, re-up and shoot them down back, remember "ITS JUST A GAME".
_________________
CO 27th Fighting Eagles/ Black Falcons
DoA Training Staff
http://www.27thdoa.com/

[vonsleep]

I have always advocated free choice and have respected it. to those who gave a pass, get a pass, those who don't, don't get one. Of course at the time, when you had to actually land on your field to not get a kill recorded it was most often a moot point, you were gonna most likely get the kill anyway and it was smart letting a guy go so you could concentrate on the other guy who is trying to kill you ( they travel in packs ya know)
Since the arena ditch bug thingy that has changed because a smoking eng practicly guarnetee's a safe landing and ditch with no kill therefore preserving your streak life etc.
There are no rules in this sim.
You have to respect how people wish to play...thier dollar,,,thier choice.
<S>
_________________
Baron Walter Von Sleep
31st Fighter Group
=vslp=
+vnslp Community Manager
DOA Training Squadron
JG-3 Royal Prussians

[Kraxus]

As I understand the current situation, the point at which you ditch determines if you are captured or escape and make your way home safely. The computer calculates your landing spot and the nearest field. If the nearest field is 'friendly', then you escape alive. If the nearest field is enemy-held, then you are captured... which is a -25pts, same as being KIA.

In the first few months I was flying, I learned the unspoken 'rules' and passed them along... and faulted those who failed to keep within the guidelines. Over time, however, it has become apparent to me that there are a wide variety of views on the subject, and trying to force everyone into a relatively narrow band of behavior choices is not only unrealistic, but unreasonable.

I gotta agree with ONERKA and SLEEPY... personal choice is the way to go. My personal preference is to give the new guy the nod once I've holed his fuel tank or his oil pan and let him try for home... and I'll acknowledge the vet who waves me homeward when he's punched a hole in my fuel tank and we both know I'm not likely to make the halfway point and safety. The next time I see him with fuel venting, I'll give him the wing wag, wish him well, and turn for another opponent.

If someone plugs my ship while I'm venting fuel and oil, it's their choice... and I'll do my very best to remember which pilot it was so that next time I encounter THEM leaking fluids across the sky, I'll be sure to add a few rounds for good measure, whether I was the pilot who smoked him or not. I certainly respect their desire to play a 'hard' game and make it a 'realistic' war... and will do my best to ensure they are satisfied with a 'hard' opponent. No vitriol, no hard feelings, no 'revenge'... just tit for tat.

The guy who is attacking my field and starts smoking/leaking does NOT get a pass. In the innocence of my 'youth' I've given such pilots the nod and turned away from attacking them, only to see them turn back and use their last few moments in the air to gun more hangars and ack pits. There's no way he can make it home and we both know it. That's why he's going down for one more pass at my ground facilities, and that's why I'm going down on his tail with guns blazing.

I fully agree about the comms... no need to burn someone everytime. A brief comment for the newer fliers is appropriate, but once they've been told, it's up to them. I'm going to be concentrating on my guns and coord comms with my squadron mates... and passing the occasional salute to gallant foes who put up a good fight.

<<S>>
_________________
Flyboys/DoA: 1st Lt. Kraxus
~The Flying Blacksmith~
95th Pursuit Sqdn - Kicking Mules

"Get it hot... hit it hard... repeat"

[doones]

Unfortunately, you really don't know for sure who you are fighting. How about setting up the arena so the plane ID icon changes to player ID when you are close ( less than D1)? They've had this in the S3s.

[vonsleep]

One way to give someone a pass and also not risk getting shot the minute you turn around is..... I stay, in postion, ready to fire and the secound he makes an overt move continue firing. Never give up your postion, never put yourself in apostion to get shot UNTIL your sure he is out..or at least he is not in a postion to shoot back at you.
But...this is just an unwritten code...
Make no mistake..there ARE no rules
_________________
Baron Walter Von Sleep
31st Fighter Group
=vslp=
+vnslp Community Manager
DOA Training Squadron
JG-3 Royal Prussians

[Onerka]

cc what sleepy said above...if you cause a fuel leak or flame a con and you have an advantage, you are on someone's 6 or have alt, don't give it up until they are clearly...clearly headed both homeward and to the deck.

One

[doones]

Well, of course you don't give up your position.

The point of a very close range player ID is if there are going to be no rules, it would help to know who you are fighting as a way of evening out the field.
If players intent on "scoring" would never let a disabled plane go, why give them the advantage of a free pass home and the additional score while robbing yourself?

[Onerka]

Doones:

Have always tried not to worry about another pilots intent on scoring and such. Ultimatly you learn to recognize who you are fighting pretty quickly, though it would sometimes be nice to know before you go in.

It is true that historically pilots painted identifying marks on their planes - some of them did anyway. We can't see detail well enough in the arena to pick that kind of stuff out, at least I cant. Well, you could paint a plane red...could probably figure that out.

All of that said...never liked the idea of identifying enemy pilots. When we have...or had...large fur balls it was always best to hold back a bit to find out where the most competent pilot was flying. You could note his/her style or determine it as he got a kill, and then gang up on that pilot and try to take him out of the fight. I can recall Kungfu leaving the arena a few times because he was so much fun to kill that we would all go after him once we figured out he was in the Spad 7. It was not a lot of fun for him...though all of us needs to die now and again LOL.

There is another possible outcome...people worried about their scores may not choose to merge with an experienced pilot with good ammo. They could actually sort out their fights to concentrate on inexperienced guys who were unprotected by experienced wing mates. That would certainly be possible and I'm pretty sure you would not like to see that happen.

Wouldn't mind knowing who we are fighting in a special event, such as a BOB, but my vote would be to leave all identification off a con's plane unless he chooses to tell you who he is on channel 100. At the same time, wonder why we are talking about this since there are so few changes in the game...changes are very unlikley events.

One

[doones]

Agreed. I did say a player ID range of D1 or less, essentially after you are committed and engaged. No seal clubbing.
As far as I know, it is a simple arena setting.

Enough said.

<S>

[vonsleep]

hhmmnn thats a s3 setting Doones...I havn't looked that one up yet but may throw it in one of my special events.
BTW have you heard of what we been doing in doa lat few months?
Every other Tues night I put on a doa fight night and try to use s3 style settings such as no inflight dar d6 icon ranges etc.
Your group use dto come in and play and might find it fun..pass the word
I try and use some fun plane setups sometimes historical sometimes not
Spad 13 vs d-7 for example..Gives the guys a chance to fly the other planes without having to worry about someone in a dr1 or camel coming along and peeing in thier cheerio's.
That being said..Kanga for next sundays emc event is doing a doa thing
Bombing paris I think
They need f2b crews and se5 defenders.
<S>
_________________
Baron Walter Von Sleep
31st Fighter Group
=vslp=
+vnslp Community Manager
DOA Training Squadron
JG-3 Royal Prussians

[Berserker]

Well said Kraxus !!!

Being one of the more frequent players in DOA, " We don't shoot leakers if they rtb" comes across my buffer quite often, and I'm sure some people have taken it as " If You don't conform your not welcome here" but it was never ment to come across that way. I beleive it helps cut down on the gangbanging or just drilling a guy into the grd. It takes alot to learn this Sims and getting ppl to stay long enough to learn is not easy and IMO opinion "not shooting leakers unless they deserve to get shot" is one of the unwritten policys we have that when used helps keep DoA a Fun and Friendly place to gather.

<S> Ber

[rogers]

Good points all around.

Bottom line, have fun. and let the other guy have fun too.
_________________
+dave+
CM Armored Assault
AG 8 Doolittle Raiders
Commanding Officer